The Divine

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The Divine

I feel each rper could get a god in the pantheon. Then it wouldn't feel as though we are merely being swept along in a meaningless story, but we were actually the cause of the story.
Magic, then, should come from the gods because we are the ones that have the will and the power to shape the world, and we share that with the world in form of our characters, who could use magic.
I would even argue that WE should be the gods, not some placeholder thing that has pretend power. We are the real ones shaping this world, and I would argue that it should be us that are represented in the world as doing so.
 
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The problem with that is that something with the power to alter the entire world, in what is meant to be a shared world, needs to be managed carefully. We want them to exist for the use of our DMs and others, but having them all over every story isn't really viable and there needs to be some baseline understanding for people to work from.
 
Why don't you have folk faith be separate from state faith? Yes you have your general gods which most people know. But you also have lesser beings who serve as minor gods. ( such as spirits and stuff.) different races have same gods. but different names and you could mix and match gods they worshipped. Like roman and Egypt. Like amun- ra. ( there seprate gods but are worshipped as the same. ) so then you can have big or small based on 1 cast of gods. Just different versions. So one might worship all gods and some might mix a few gods this making there faith smaller.

( shrug just thoughts)
 
Yes, maybe the bigger names are not playable, but the smaller ones are? Maybe you can play as a minor god, or a spirit, or something that is not a god at all? It may be semantics, but that's interesting... what is a god?... albiet a thread I'd prefer to keep loose for the time being.
 
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JamesMartin said:
The problem with that is that something with the power to alter the entire world, in what is meant to be a shared world, needs to be managed carefully. We want them to exist for the use of our DMs and others, but having them all over every story isn't really viable and there needs to be some baseline understanding for people to work from.
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Maybe I didn't explain myself properly, that was kind of vague.
I was just saying that we ARE the gods, whether we are represented as such or not. We already have the power to change and shape the world, and maybe we should have a shared world where everyone has that kind of power IC.
Magic is also just that, magic. Now, I'm not saying it's not important to have a magic system, it is, but what if it was looser than that? I just think that keeping the rules incredibly loose would be beneficial to everyone.
What if magic was influinced by your ingenuity and wit? What if, like a puzzle, you had pieces but can put it together in different forms? What if there were infinite combinations and you were only limited by your creativity - like the magic from the Inheritance Cycle, where it is a specific action and the way you said it would either work or kill you on the spot, and the infinite possibilities of a language were all that stood in between your goal and where you were?
I don't know, just ideas.
 
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...so is this project still going? Seems to be dead in the water, which would be a shame.

Anyway, on the subject, I really don't think anyone should have the option to play as a god, even a minor one. Too much possibility for overpowered characters. Gods should remain vague and beyond the reach of mortals (or supernaturals).
 
Yep, still ongoing. We're viewing it as more of a long term effort—better to do it right than do it fast
 
Perhaps magic and the divine should be separated since discussing magic mechanics is/will become very in depth and consuming.

Players can't play Gods. End of line. It becomes way too difficult to manage. HOWEVERRRRR, that doesn't mean that players can't become Gods. I'm going to make a post in Misc discussing a bit of the Meta about the universe since that will govern a lot of the other stuff.
 
Players can't play or become gods. One is the same as the other, since being unplayable basically means the character is reduced to irrelevance. No idea why anyone would want that.
 
Hello, figured I'd throw my two cents in about gods. I once read a story where Gods weren't a permanent aspect of the universe. They had a sort of Divine Core, or some kind of Key I think, which was the main energy of their godhood. For the main character, he was a brand new god with a new "Key" meaning he had no defined aspect and slowly refined his Divinity over time.

Other established Deities could choose a successor and pass their key on to them. That could be another deity or a mortal follower. One goddess was like the sixth or seventh generation of her "lineage?". She was a kind War Goddess and when it all became too great for her, she'd pass on her abilities and a book created and added onto by the previous goddesses.

There was a lot to being a deity too. They had multiple bodies. A Divine Body which was their body they used to do miracles and all that jazz, a Mortal body which they used to interact with the mortal world on a regular basis, let them move about without being swamped. Some even pretended to be their own followers to spread their own word. One Goddess was her own Head Priestess.

The aforementioned War Goddess had a body that just absorbed all the Hate and ill wishes from her enemies. (I can go into more detail about the different deity energies if people are interested)

It still went with the old fashioned "People's faith is our energy source" aspect as other deity based stories.

The whole story was super interesting and implied that the act of forming a Pantheon made each individual Deity stronger that was part of it.

Quick Edit: Not saying the idea should be used in full, but I like the idea of Gods and Goddesses being able to pass on their divinity to either die or ascend to a higher state of existence? I love the idea that deities are not all powerful, but still have greater power than mortals.
 
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It all started with one. One god, one being, that walked out of the Rift. This god, this twisted perversion of what once was, walked out of the Rift, showing awesome displays of power and strength, as well as a willingness to interact with the mortal realm, that hadn't been seen in centuries, even controlling the monsters that also emerged, coordinating them into an unstoppable army. There seemed to be no rules for what this deity, given strength and will by the darkness inside the Rift, could do, the Rift, for the first time in nearly a century, slowly expanding.
And he made it clear that he wanted to see everything burn.
And then, of course, the gods started coming back,
Some gods sided with groups of mortals that would worship them, guiding them and giving them protection, or strength. Some people, and even gods, chose to side with the Man in the Mirror, the God, that emerged from the darkness, believing that he would spare them from his destruction, and they could thrive in the chaos that was to come.
But the gods brought their grudges with them, and they were even worse at working together than humans, bickering and arguing and getting nothing done. The mortal races likewise acted like children.
Can the mortal races and the gods learn to work together before it's too late?

This setting seems like it would be optimal - because it has the opportunity for many side stories, activities, and quests, maybe as the mortals and gods are scrambling to get some sort of defense together before the chaos curdles into all-out war. The Man might likewise be attempting to get together powerful weapons, make deals with gods, attack the good guys' back line, and build an army, leading to conflict.
The Man also provides us with a concrete villain, a big bad. Something for the often warring peoples of the world to at least try and defend against.
Maybe for a few months we could just focus of before the war, everyone preparing for the most epic war in history, before shit really hits the fan, and we get into the nitty-gritty of the war, maybe splitting up users to fight for either side, making a combat system that would allow characters to take certain important locations/cities, and whoever has the most wins?
 
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Pantheons are interesting and the idea that multiple cultures have "the same god" for X, Y or Z is fairly straightforward and a good way to hand wave a lot of the issues that are inherent with having gods in a setting. The *easiest* solution is that "the gods don't interfere with the events of the world" full stop. That way no player has any grounds to claim that anything that they do is ordained by the gods from an out of character perspective (while allowing for a character to completely believe that what they do IS on the commands of whatever voice they hear in their heads, etc.). In addition to this, I think that magic faces a really similar issue, magic is "magic" (call it arcane, divine, etc.) and it largely comes from the self or is drawn from nature (as in literally pulled from the world) but it is not something that a player can just blow holes through cities because "I summoned the power of *insert Zeus equivalent here* and now I have all the uber lasers".

Having a "general" pantheon is a great way to allow players to interpret it in their own way. The *world* itself might have a more strict view of the pantheon and certain cities might have specific allegiances to specific gods (which do not affect their daily affairs ever) but do inform the way that characters and players interact in that world (think Xmas or Ramadan in our own world, etc.).
 
The complexity of the problem is solved like this. Only answer the essential questions.

1. What do the people in our world believe about the gods?

2. How does this impact game play?

The other questions.

3. What is the true nature of the gods/creation?

4. What does it all mean?

1 and 2 matter to the world. 3 and 4 matter to a select bunch of weirdos with a religion fetish. I am one of those weirdos. I propose we answer 1 and 2 first. So that people can play in a world where there are gods. The gods that impact play, should be the gods that people believe in. Gods that no one believes in should not be invited to the party as they waste time. If one person believes in a god they should be allowed to worship them, regardless of how weird or disruptive that god might be... however that god cannot impact the world or bestow any benefits that impact role play unless approved by the authorities that be.

The answer to 3 and 4 are a matter of mystery. If you want the answers you must find them in game. There is no reason that everyone in our world should agree on the answers to 3 and 4. No one in our actual IRL world can agree on these things. Perhaps the true gods were destroyed by aliens, or maybe they are a bunch of nerdy wanks in front of computers. The point being that the character can believe what they want and by believing they add diversity without impacting game play.

So tasks to complete.

1. Create an official pantheon of 6 to 8 gods.

2. Create a system to govern how these gods impact game play.

3. Create a system by which new gods can be approved by admins/mods.

4. Establish an official church dedicated to my pantheon.

5. Get myself named High Priest

6. Resolve all conflicts regarding questions 3 and 4.

7. Make peace with the notion that even if I am High Priest and I know all the answers to questions 3 and 4, most everyone else will likely disagree with me... unless they've completed a quest to learn first hand the true nature of the gods.

8. Design and offer such a quest for interested adventurers to undertake.

This is my personal agenda, shared openly just in case anyone cares to try to stop me. You are also welcome to join the cause.
 
The Seven Gods of The Outer Sanctum (very loosely based on the 7 gods of Westeros in "Game of Thrones" for reference those gods were Father, Smith, Warrior, Maiden, Mother, Crone, and Stranger).

1. Father Sun: (Halatio) Gender male. Associated with law, order, morality, cities, and summer. Patron of monarchs, judges, lawyers, fathers, managers, and administrators. He is a stereotypical good guy god. Popular among the people, and widely considered benevolent. Sacred day: Sunday. Examples of archetype IRL: Apollo, Zeus/Jupiter, Ra, Jesus

2. Huntress of the Harvest: (Demetria) Gender female. Associated with nutrition, fertility, plants and animals, farms, and autumn. Patron of pregnant women, hunters, farmers, cooks, and ranchers. She is where the food comes from so people love her, but she also has a strong association with death, blood, and birth. Sacred day: Tuesday. Examples of archetype IRL: Artemis/Diana, Demeter/Ceres, Hathor, Frigga.

3. Brother War: (Brax) Gender male. Associated with war, combat, protection, competition, sports, conquest and fire. Patron of soldiers, law enforcement, jailers, executioners, and athletes. His is your basic god of war, necessary for any society whether we like him or not. Sacred day: Thursday. Examples of archetype IRL: Mars/Aries, Thor, Jehovah

4. The Dark Lady: (Lunai) Gender female. Associated with darkness, mystery, secrecy, danger, fear, fate, spinning, and weaving, death, the underworld, and winter. Patron of weavers, virgins, crones, witches, necromancers, spys, and assassins. She is feared by many but is surprisingly gentle to those who worship her. Sacred day: Monday. Examples of archetype IRL: Hecate, Persephone, Isis, Hel, Satan.

5. The Scholar: (Sophiam) Gender non-binary. Associated with invention, scholarship, creative inspiration, story telling, writing, literature, strategy, arcane magic, science, medicine, and air. Patron of students, professors, inventors, doctors, scientists, writers, poets, and wizards. They are an aloof god, called upon by many but showing true favor to only a few. Sacred day: Wednesday. Examples of archetype IRL: Hermes/Mercury, Athena/Minerva, Sophia.

6. The Lover: (Vulga) Gender androgynous/intersex: Associated with sex, beauty, love, desire, visual arts, fashion, and water. Patron of lovers, prostitutes, artists, and designers. They are an intimate god, showing favor freely and frequently interfering with mortal affairs. Sacred day: Friday. Examples of archetype IRL: Eros/Cupid, Aphrodite/Venus, Isis, Freya, Innana.

7. The Trickster: (Shen/Ani/Gan) Gender fluid (capable of changing gender at will). Associated with humor, confusion, chaos, madness, illusion, performing arts and spring. Patron of actors, dancers, clowns, bards, idiots, madmen, and addicts. S/he is an unpredictable god and those who worship them do so with humor and a light heart, those who take themselves too seriously have a hard time of it. Sacred day: Saturday. Example of archetype IRL: Hermes, Dionysus, Baubo, Loki, Anansi, Coyote, Raven, Rabbit/Hare

A quick word on Democracy and Creativity:

The problem with trying to do a creative project democratically is that one is only inspired to create things that speak to them directly. Trying to be creative on a project that has too many voices giving input kills inspiration. You can't make something that pleases everyone and also make something that pleases yourself. This is not the necessarily the best or only configuration for a pantheon, but this is the pantheon that I'm willing to put time and effort into. I do however have a couple of suggestions for how to approach being democratic about the process of selecting a pantheon.

1. Propose your own pantheon and take responsibility for developing it and figuring out how it might work in accordance with practical rules of a unique role play world. Don't tear my down. Build yours up. If we have more than one pantheon to choose from it can be put to a vote, but from there it's your baby.

2. If you like this pantheon in general but think one of these gods or goddesses could use some tweaking. I'll give him/her/them to you. You can be High Priest/ess and take charge of that god's shrine IC and develop that god further OOC. I'm laying claim to The Trickster though. S/he's mine. All the rest are fair game and open to adjustment and interpretation, but I'll stay on board with the project and keep developing any unclaimed deities.

3. We could also opt to ditch all of my gods but the one I want, and create another pantheon altogether. I'd still like to have The Trickster included. I still want to be his high priest, but I'm open to an entirely different pantheon taking shape. I just don't intend to put a lot of time and energy into it. I'll do my god/dess. The rest is someone else's job.

@JamesMartin your feedback would be especially welcome.
 
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I propose an ungod of unbelief, suspended conclusions, irony, and nothing.

Nihil.

Is never depicted directly and has no sacred symbol beyond a null sign, but in this context the null sign is a literal null sign representing the absence of suitable depictions and or sacred symbols, and any attempt to interpret or explain it as a positive representation of something is inadvisable. Has no sacred number although representative values and empty sets may be deployed here, but see above. Has no sacred animal although ironic acknowledgement of the proverbial Black Swan in this context is acceptable (that is a symbolic representation of something that does not exist,) but associating Nihil with real animals (or anything in fact) is deeply insulting. Its sacred day is every day, but only when one accepts that no day is sacred. Reserves considerable hostility for anyone who attempts to worship, propriate, or otherwise bother it directly and reserves favour only for those who do not want it and will not value it.
 
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Divine proposal: The Man in the Mirror

"I AM THE ENDER OF ALL THINGS!"

Who knows who this dark entity was before he turned into whatever he is now, but this entity, bent on chaos, associated with the end of all things, turned against the gods that were at the time. Faced with either total annihilation or submitting to this madman, some gods turned to the Man, hoping to be saved from destruction, but most chose to fight. In a decisive battle, the Man destroyed countless gods, not killing them, for gods may never be killed, but exhausting their power so thoroughly that forming any kind of consciousness was improbable for the rest of time.
Finally, however, the gods managed to defeat the Man in the Mirror and imprison him in his Glass Cage. The tired gods limped away to lick their wounds, some never managing to return to their full power, and the Man's servants all either faded along with the other defeated gods, or were imprisoned as well.
Ever since, the Man has rot in his Glass Cage, dead but dreaming, building up his power so that he may influence the world outside of his prison once more.

I know this is kind of a trope, but I feel that an imprisoned god would work well within this universe - maybe the Man's servants start to break free, maybe the Man himself starts to contact people, or starts to possess people?
The goal for this was to create a constant threat to the survival of the world - kind of dramatic, yes, I know, but I feel like having a clearly defined threat would help whatever kind of mainline stories the world had, and give a significant threat to characters of differing power levels. Having gods that disappeared before was a little bit iffy of a decision to me, but I feel like it gives legitimacy to the formidability of this antagonist.
Maybe when the Man breaks free, it gives others a chance to pick sides, maybe how many and the quality of the people on each side decides the fate of the universe? Whether it descends into chaos or it remains intact in order?
 
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